Sorry for the re-post, but this is too important not to pass around. Free The Animal has an outstanding post on the misleading pile of dookie that is The China Study. Here is the original analysis that Richard is referring to which was generated by Denise Minger.
If you recall, we funded a debate between T. Colin Campbell and Prof. Loren Cordain several years ago. Instead of addressing the topics raised in a mechanistic fashion typical of scientific debate, Campbell dismissed all of evolution in favor of a “holistic” approach to nutrition. It was odd.
Campbell’s position is indefensible from ideological positions and now we see that the science was largely cooked. This is a good day.
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How about we link to the person who did all the work? No disrespect to Mr. Nikoley, he is just using his digital pen to spread the word! The blogger who did the research is Denise Minger, and her blog is here: http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/.
Wouldn’t it be nice for her server to crash from all the people interested in her work?
Cheryl-
thank you, yes.
At my new doctor in my new town, he sat me down and told me that “all that stuff we thought about cholesterol, we now know isn’t true. That’s not what causes heart disease.”
I said, “let me stop you there, Doc. I read GCBC”
He said, “good, but we know even more than that now. Animal protein causes an autoimmune reaction – it’ similar to what happens to cannibals. The immune reaction causes that” [points to the enormous cutaway model of atherosclerosis provided by a statin manufacturer] “Mammals – cattle, pigs are the worst because we’re most closely related, fowl is better, fish is okay sometimes.”
Me: “Um, shit. Anything I can read about that? ”
Dr: “The China Study!. You should approach an all-vegetable diet, if you’re able to.”
I didn’t read TCS but has anyone else heard this autoimmune reaction to beef stuff? I don’t see it anywhere in the Protein Debate, and the only cannibal disease I can find on the internets appears to be caused by eating brains.
Von-
Yea, have heard of it…sounds like another topic to debunk once the book is finished.
My friend from Henan, China said the same thing about fish and chickens versus cows and pigs.
He told me that cows and pigs are more similar to humans than fish and chickens. If we eat cows and pigs or any animal that are more similar to humans, the particles of their meat get absorbed into our bloodstream where our immune system will attack it because it’s a foreign particle. However, since they bore resemblance to certain particles in our bodies, our immune system will also attack those particles in our bodies that look like the particles of the cows and pigs. With fish and chickens, it does not happen like that because their particles are more different than humans.
It seemed very legitimate.
Your friend is barking up the wrong tree on the autoimmunity story:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=celiac-disease-insights
I didnt even know the China Study was still in print. I thought it was exposed for it’s lies and it’s pages put to good use…cleaning birds and sea life in the Gulf. Strange. I guess people will believe anything as long as it has “study” in the title.
Johnie!
yea, I think all you need is a graph and an appeal to folks “morality” to have a book rolling.
Wow! “Junk Science and Lies” Sounds very “soft-sell” and “non-religious” to me.
Bravo! That is a great review of The China Study. Great timing too, I just had a discussion with a RD friend of mine about The China Study and was telling her about its fallacy and bias, this is a great review to pass along.
[...] are also reviews of Denise’s article at Free the Animal, Whole Health Source, Robb Wolf and PaNu. If you don’t have time to read Denise’s article, read Dr. Harris’s [...]
I agree, Ms. Minger should get all the credit due. And, as a supplemental read, the PaNu blog just posted an interesting commentary on this whole thing, too, which is a great read: http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2010/7/8/polish-a-turd-and-find-a-diamond.html
[...] The China Study: Junk Science and Lies [...]
I read that protein debate a while ago. Sheeeeesh. Oh yeah because isolated cow casein in rats can be extrapolated to all protein in all humans. Talk about a man on a mission.
Stabby-
yes, that is on par with Ancel Keys. Amazing.
It’s highly ironic that Campbell would defend his flawed and biased approach by referring to a “holistic” approach, while in fact the only way to scientifically apply a holistic approach to the human diet is to take a *biological* view of our species, which means looking at our evolutionary history.
For instance, it is true that we shouldn’t focus on individual nutrients while ignoring conditioning inter-relationships that apply when we eat various groups of whole foods, but how can we even speculate properly about such relationships if we (like Campbell) don’t want to look at the nutritional conditions under which Homo Sapiens evolved. Such holistic speculation would be totally arbitrary.
No one should listen to anyone about diets if the evolutionary perspective isn’t accounted for at least implicitly.
“in fact the only way to scientifically apply a holistic approach to the human diet is to take a *biological* view of our species, which means looking at our evolutionary history.”
Youre right, we should study the fossils of people who have been dead for over 10,000+ years, of whom we still dont completely understand, and then make educated guesses as to exactly what they ate. And then people to eat the same way, telling them that it will cure them of all western disease, all with absolutely no proof that its legitimate. Not that it would do us any good considering they were all dead before they could even have grandchildren. Or…
We could do human studies on modern men and women over the course of a large portion of their life. That seems to scientific to me. In fact, its already been done. Dr.Esselstyn reversed heart disease with a plant based diet. The #1 killer in this country and he proved that you could eliminate it through a whole foods, plant based diet that yes, included grains. Find me real evidence, not theory, not guesses based on bones, but a real human study with real proof that this can be done on the paleo diet, and then maybe ill buy into this whole fad. Because thats what Paleo diet is, im not trying to start any fights here, but paleo is based on nothing buy guess work and the logic of a few individuals. Love <3 Casey.
Don’t be fooled people, Denise has misinterpreted raw data, just as many inexperienced “researchers” do. Denise is not qualified to read such data correctly.
Please refer to the use and misuse on pp. 54-82 of the China Project monograph.
The following is Dr Campbell’s rebuttal. The rest can be found http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/campbell_china_response.htm
” China Project results are no exception to these limitations of single experiments. It was very large, unique and comprehensive but it was observational (i.e., not interventional), simply observing things as they were at a single point in time. It provided an exceptionally large number of hypothetical associations (shown as statistically assessed correlations) that may indicate but does not prove cause and effect relationships. These unanalyzed correlations are considered raw or crude. It is highly unusual to find such ‘raw’ data in a scientific report because, in part, untrained observers may misunderstand such raw data.
For the monograph, we were somewhat uncertain whether to publish such raw data but decided to do so for two principle reasons. First, we wanted to make these data available to other researchers, while hoping that data misuse would not be a significant problem. Second, because these data were collected in rural China at a time when data reliability might have been questioned, we chose to be as transparent as possible. We discussed data use and misuse on pp. 54-82 of the China Project monograph that curiously was overlooked by Masterjohn and Jay’Y’.
John-
Denise raised similar concerns about the data as Prof. Cordain and others who were summarily dismissed by Campbell. The data neither supports the claims nor directs us towards a testable mechanism for the China Study claims. Honestly, I think we are at a point in which observational studies need to be relegated to lining bird cages UNLESS they accompany a proposed mechanism and lay our follow-up controlled clinical trials:
http://www.staffanlindeberg.com/OurResearch.html
This is the very point that Cordain made in the Protein Debate with Campbell, generate a theory which offers predictive value. The China study the vegan paradigm offer NOTHING in this regard. It is not supported by evolutionary theory, optimum foraging strategy, Game theory nor the clinical trials which offer substantive data.
[...] the China Study, and Richard Nikoley is there with a bullhorn to spread the word. Rob Wolf is all over this one as well. See The Protein Debate (PDF) between Cordain and [...]
[...] Campbell har tidigare debatterat med Loren Cordain där han ,som man säger, blev “ägd”. Cordain lägger upp referens efter referens, medan Campbell nöjer sig med att påstå att evolutionen inte kan säga något om vad en nyttig kost består i. Läs mer om debatten på Robb Wolfs blogg. [...]
John has written the exact same post all over the place. He belongs to the 30 bananas site who are vegans
Sue-
Well, then we’ll say a prayer for his low blood sugar crash.
[...] Posted by lovatof1 Such as… This may add to the development of the thread The China Study: Junk Science and Lies Thoughts? Chiggers __________________ A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good [...]
The correct way to conduct the analysis…
http://www.30bananasaday.com/group/debunkingthechinastudycritics/forum/topics/my-response-to-denises
Dr Campbell’s response…
http://www.30bananasaday.com/group/debunkingthechinastudycritics/forum/topics/campbells-response-to-denises
Freelee-
I appreciate your taking the time to post the link, but again, you guys are simply suggesting a re-cook of correlative data obtained largely from questionnaires. The laboratory work looking at casein is almost funny in how it;s been spun by Campbell. I still do not see Campbell moving towards testable hypothesis.
Hey Robb,
Not really relevant to the china study (but my memories of trudging through the book reminded me of protein intake), but I know you and Poliquin like the 1g protein per lb of bodyweight for the obese metabolically deranged diabetic types (for satiety and thermic effect), and I know high protein intake isn’t a problem unless you have an existing kidney problem, but what do you do with clients who are diabetic to the point of having damaged kidney function? Or do they have to be really far gone in type 2 diabetes before this will be an issue? Would a lower protein, lower carb, higher fat approach be applicable here?
Cheers.
Geoff-
I’ve not had a client in that dire of shape but your suggested mods make sense and that is likely how I;d tackle it.
I am continually amazed how gullible we are when in comes to “macro-evolution”…Talk about junk science! The scientific community knows that evolution is a farce…Scientists are forced to keep quiet about their disbelieve in evolution for obvious reasons…the “theory” of evolution is not a theory at all, but simply a belief, a blind belief…
Unfortunately people are not interested in the truth. People believe what they want to believe, what fits nicely into their worldview…You need to decide, do you want the truth, or do you want to keep believing the lies that the “system” keeps feeding us?
The idea that “life” resulted from randomness is unscientific and defies common sense…
The first question we need to ask ourselves is what is “life”…What distinguishes life from non-life? Specified-Complexity is one way to distinguish life from non-life…”Life” is extremely complex, beyond man’s comprehension…It is also extremely specific…Our DNA and the systems that make life work are extremely specific (in the same way computer code is or chemical reactions are). There is NO scientific experiment that has every been conducted that can demonstrate how extremely complex AND extremely specific systems develop over long periods of time…In fact, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states the opposite, that any closed system will move from a more ordered state to a less ordered state (The universe is a closed system, unless of course, you believe in God)…
Another question…Scientists are quick to point out that DNA fits perfectly into the definition of a “language” or “code”. It’s an extremely complex, highly compacted amount of information stored in a “code”…What scientific experiment can demonstrate that information can “evolve” and be stored in a coded format over long periods of time? Common sense tells us that information must come from intelligence…Language and codes must come from a mind…NOT random mutations over long periods of time…
We need to stop believing the lies we are fed in our sick culture…and start thinking for a change…Follow the money…The Dairy Industry, the Meat Industry, the “food” Industry, Supplement Industry, the “Healthcare Industry”, our Government…Our consumer driven culture encourages profit and any cost…to fill their pockets with your money…WAKEUP PEOPLE…FOLLOW THE MONEY…STOP BEING SO GULLIBLE …
In summary, macro-evolution is a big lie. Scientists risk their careers if they voice their disbelief in it…Therefore, Loren Cordain’s argument that is based in part on “macro-evolution” is junk science in the highest degree and should be dismissed outright.
Rather than reject the China Study, why not test it? Get a comprehensive blood test, become a Vegan for 6 months, check your blood again, and see for yourself how your health will improve! You will lose weight, your blood pressure will drop, your cholesterol will drop…Then draw your own conclusions and make your decision…
Michael-
You said “Rather than reject the China Study, why not test it? Get a comprehensive blood test, become a Vegan for 6 months, check your blood again…”
I have, many have. The results suck.
Have you tried an “paleo approach?” Can you hold yourself to the high standards you are PREACHING to others? As to the macro-evolution topic I simply offer this:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/
So it comes down to evolution versus creationism, AGAIN? Sheesh.
[...] those of you who are worried about the China Study (Click here for information)… read this, this and this for the debunking party! from → Uncategorized ← Coconut Egg Curry [...]
Robb,
Do you know of any side by side comparison tests that have been performed on a single person on a Vegan and Paleo diet. Test’s that would show concrete data from blood tests, weight, fat, AA/EPA ratios, etc,etc.
I have yet to see one of these anywhere.
Kevin-
Have not seen anything like that.
“low blood sugar crash”
Hilarious, the ‘fruit is high glycemic’ myth is still strong in the peleo world.
Gday crew,nice blog.
How come NONE of these pro meat bloggers have any real muscle with all that protein talk?
Come and see if ANY of you guys can out bench press/dead lift us at
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com
http://www.veganstrength.org
http://www.organicathlete.org
Here is the website for the doubters.
http://www.pcrm.org
Mike Arnstein ran a 2:28 marathon this year at Boston. He is the FASTEST runner in the raw food movement today. Long time vegan and now powered by sweet fruit. How come there is no competitive athletes eating this ‘paleo fat diet?’ Please shut me up and show me cos Im sick of seeing cardio and muscle deficient paleo crew trying to debunk the china study that us elite athletes are thriving on.
Can you debunk me with a high fat eating paleo athlete?
Didnt think so..
Love, peace and banana grease.
Durianrider
Durianrider-
My best competition lifts are 565 SQ, 345 bench and 565 DL at 181. Currently competing in master Brasialian Jiu-jitsu.
Now, are you chaps consuming ANY concentrated protein sources (tofu, temphe, protein powders) or are you getting your nutrition from WHOLE food? If you use any concentrated sources then my response is SO WHAT? I get my protein from a cow (grass–>cow) you get yours out of a nutraceutical fermentation vat (Grass–>fermentation vat, chemical processing, can-o-soy protein).
All that you guys prove is that a higher protein diet is necessary for most folks in strength athletics. BTW- I do not go stalking around vegan forums trying to convert the masses. You guys are religious fanatics. If your way of eating works for you, great. I tried it your way, was sick and do great with this approach. If you took the time to read any of this blog you;d know that back story.
I guess you missed all of Joe Friel’s athletes…those folks with world championships, olympic team placements…that eat a paleo diet?
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/
We have a 6 Week “I am CrossFit” at our Gym which includes nutrition.
Here is what one participant said:
“From vegetarian to paleo in 6 weeks… This was a trial for me (not as in hard but as in a test period). I wanted to see if changing my diet would make a difference in my training. Oh. My. God. There is no going back. There is no comparison. I’m convinced and converted.”
Julianne-
It never goes the other way.
>> How come NONE of these pro meat bloggers have any real muscle with all that protein talk?
Vegetarians can postulate all they want about the ethical or ecological reasons not to eat animal protein, but when they attempt to portray that ideology as ideal for muscle gains, it borders on the ridiculous and flies in the empirical face of every pro bodybuilder/strongman/champion powerlifter out there.
DDD-
Word.
“How come NONE of these pro meat bloggers have any real muscle with all that protein talk?”
I am a 51 yr old female trainer and can lift in these ranges: BP 225#, squat 425# to parallel and leg press 1,800#. This is on a whole foods diet of; predominantly grass pastured beef, organic vegetables/tubers, wild harvested berries, raw organic nuts and limited amounts of raw, grass-fed dairy. BTW-I checked out the link that your provided w/training journals of ‘vegan’ athletes. While some of thier physiques were mildy impressive, included in their diets ware: Creatine wafers, BCAA’s and many other protein concentrate supplements! Hmmmm…… their strength and endurance cannot be contributed solely to a vegan ‘foods’ after all, especially since the best source of creatine is good ole fashioned red meat.
Kathy!
You rock! thanks.
Kath , you’re doing alright, cause you supplement your intake – i know you are right and wrong / wrong cause you say ” best source of creatine is old fashin meat ” Now for someone so complete, why not add education as well ? Today, almost exclusively best source of creatine is synthetic.
So what is it with these hippies that think that everything comes from meat ? 1 main thing comes from meat : Disease. Its on the increase, nothing anyone can do, except stop eatng it. I have proof.
if you want it, make room for my equipment – a clean room will be fine.
Synthetic. Sounds healthy. Interestingly the source materials to create synthetic creatine are ultimately acetic acid, limestone and coking coal. Now I’m willing to bet that the acetic acid is not from vinegar, it’s much cheaper to source it from the petrochemical industry. I wonder about the energy transformations (and thus the thermodynamic inefficiency) needed to create such a product compared with grass reared beef? Which would have more of an environmental impact?
So let’s compare one source of protein, grass fed beef:
SUNLIGHT->GRASS->BEEF->HUMAN
In the right conditions this is sustainable until the sun burns us out of existence.
vs
Creatine Powder:
ACETIC ACID (REFINED PETROLEUM)+[MINED LIMESTONE (MORE FOSSIL FUEL USE)+COKING COAL(ANOTHER NON-RENEWABLE SOURCE MATERIAL, PRODUCED IN FURNACES +2000 CELSIUS) ->CYANAMIDE]->CREATINE POWDER->HUMAN
So perhaps, vegans can only exist and thrive in the modern synthetic chemical laden world of the petrochemical era, a truly limited time when taken in the context of human evolution?
[...] http://robbwolf.com/2010/07/08/the-china-study-junk-science-and-lies/ [...]
A holistic approach to Nutrition? Not exactly a good thing IMO. When you are debating something about nutrition and are going to defend it or go attack some aspect of nutrition, you have to do it from a scientific point of view especialyl if the debate si about science. So yeah….not a good idea to go holistic with this debate.
The China Study isn’t the only source that recommends approaching a high density, plant based, whole food diet. Another resource to look at is “Eat to Live,” by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. He too, also suggest, and prescribes to his patients, eating “live” foods, and foods that are high density plant based. He has many patient case studies, and offers many examples backed with scientific research, which all suggest that eating foods as close to earth is the healthiest way to eat. Why knock this stuff as if these guys a nuts? Do you really feel our early homo-sapien ancestors ate meat every day? Can we prove that they didn’t have diet-based heart and endocrine diseases?
Tommy-
No, and you cannot prove that they DID. then we look to the Inuit and Ache (to name a few) who eat almost exclusively a meat based diet, yeat have NO cardiovascular disease.
Tommy, please comment on this.
And also, I want you to REALLY think this through: You are suggesting that humans developed cardiovascular disease on their ancestral (evolutionary) diet. this IS what you are saying. Name one other organism that this happens to. That the ANCESTRAL diet causes cardiovascular disease.
Tommy, the answer is NONE. We need agriculture to see this problem. Our pets get sick from the food we feed them, not when they eat their ancestral diets. Cattle get sick when fed grains, so do humans.
Can switching to a plant based diet improve the health of someone who eats a terrible, processed food diet? Of course, but Tommy you need to be better informed and THINK this through.
I think that basing a diet off what our “ancestors” ate has only a small base for what the modern human body needs. To try and compare the activity level, quality of food supply, frequency of eating, environmental conditions to modern society is missing something.
Genetically we may be the same as those people from our past, but this does not mean that eating the way they did is correct for today.
The growing epidemic of obesity and disease in wealthy countries is caused by an industrialized for profit food supply, lack of food education, lowering of exercise for daily living, and in my opinion a society that has become addicted to foods that lack dense micro-nutrient value. The human body is starving for nutrients, therefore we continue to eat and eat more calories of this unhealthy food. Your body then lacks the power it needs to defend itself from disease.
There also seems to be an argument going on over muscle building and athlete’s. There is more involved in a persons ability to gain muscle and perform than what they eat. Lets be honest with ourselves. Science and medicine has shown us how to gain muscle and performance fast. Special diets have shown to grow a persons natural muscle building ability past it’s normal potential. This however does not mean that this way of eating is healthy for the human body. You can be fit and muscular, but still suffer debilitating disease in the end.
Matt-
I’m sorry but you seem to be on the one hand arguing that this is wrong, yet offering NOTHING substantive as an alternative. What gives?
Robb-
My intention in posting a response was to simply place my opinion, and not to give other people my alternative. I have no medical degree or advanced study in human physiology or Epidemiology. My opinions are based completely on life experience and my own interest and study of nutritional literature.
I will be honest that much of your book is brilliant. I believe that it can be life changing, especially for those that are moving from the average American processed meals, refined carbohydrates, cheese, animal fats and virtually no fresh fruit and vegetables.
I however believe that it is still primarily focused on Macro nutrients. It argues that without meat you will always be hungry, not satisfied. Those that try to follow your diet as vegetarians should use a processed egg protein power & supplements?
I firmly believe that the human body is perfectly capable to handle meat intake on occasion, but only if balanced with large amounts of green leaf vegetables and fruit (also a source of high protein). Animal protein is emphasized too much in western society as your only source of complete protein. It is socially en-grained in our society.
I like Dr. Fuhrman’s example: What has more protein? Ham, Tomatoes or oatmeal? The answer is that they all have about the same amount per calorie. The difference is tomatoes & oatmeal are packaged with fiber, vitamins and cancer fighting micro-nutrients while Ham is packaged with Fat & Cholesterol. This same principle really applies when comparing all dark green vegetables to meat.
I am a bit of a Dr Fuhrman fan boy, so as a video for thought. Here is a video of Dr Fuhrman speaking about athlete’s & protein intake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDCkJ0XRFqo&feature=player_embedded#!
Matt-
I sincerely appreciate the response. We can break much of this down but there are a few obvious deviations you and I have on world view: I see no problem with ft & cholesterol…that’s just a start, I need to look at the calorie/calorie view of the foods you offered but it is well understood that populations that consume more than 50-60% of cals from grains begin to suffer deficiency diseases (berberi, pelagra, celiac) the addition of fruit and veggies (meat?) are necessary to literally supplement the diet. The same is NOT true of a meat based diet, a meat+veggie…meat+fruit.
I can see a spectrum of good human function with regards to meat intake, when I see an increase in grains, legumes and dairy, I see problems arise. I can track this via blood work, performance…you name it.
I watched the video…they are discussing runners and endurance athletes. If you look at the vegan body-building sites those people DO NOT get by on fruits and veggies. They use protein powders which seems to just support the absolute need for a concentrated protein source. Joe Friel is also a coach at the OTC:
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/
We can wage theory wars all day…what recommend is folks try it, be it vegan or paleo, and see if they look, feel and perform better. Do biomarkers of health improve? That’s what I hang my hat on. I HAVE done the vegan approach. Ulcerative colitis was one of my participation prizes…it did not work for me, I do not see it work well for our clients, especially relative to a paleo approach.
well meat based diet is wrong, trust me ive been lab rating myself for a book i will be writing. it come down to this . MEAT = fat/protein and GRAINS = carbs. avoid both. because in the end of the day. your carb/pro/fat ratio means nothing about health.
so ya low carb high fat can work. so can high carb low fat. health is more complicated than that
Xig-
That was shockingly informative. Thanks.
dumb
[...] 100,000 years ago. A lot of people cite The China Study when criticizing the Paleo Diet – here are some essays, reviews, and a debate between the author of the Paleo Diet and the author of the China Study that might make you change [...]
Thanx for the response Rob,
It is great that you have a very responsive blog to talk to. I also appreciate the professional response, keeping arguments aside. The topic of food is a very socially sensitive one, that many people take personally. It becomes a more sensitive subject to those that take food seriously.
Can you speak to the differences between “The Paleo Diet” vs. “The Paleo Solution”?
Matt
Mat-
PS is written from the perspective of working with thousands of people. Read both!
Hey Robb,
Not sure if you check commenting on your old posts but…..when I click the “item” it goes to a 404…..how can I get this??
Thanks a million,
CAP
Old link, sorry about that.
http://www.cathletics.com/articles/article.php?articleID=50
[...] I thought (delusionally) that the China Study had been thoroughly debunked here, here, here, and here, I am clearly living in a fantasy world, considering Campbell has a movie coming out. That guy [...]
I have read Robb Wolf’s book, The Paleo Diet, and I found it to be extremely informative and it made sense to me. I have been eating paleo for about two months, although I haven’t noticed a huge change yet, and actually my hair has started falling out a lot! I was already gluten free, as I found out six months ago that I have a gluten intolerance.
Well, I just got back from my first appointment with a Rheumatologist, who is testing me for Lupus, since I have positive ANA and other markers for Lupus including hair loss and fatigue. The Rheumatologist told me to consider a VEGETARIAN DIET! I was shocked. He said that animal protein causes inflammation. Obviously, this is completely opposite from what I read in The Paleo Diet, but now I am confused. He also gave me examples of people who have been relieved of their lupus symptoms by giving up meat, especially beef. Can this be possible? Obviously, most people on this blog do not agree with this, and I am hoping to get some more info, and maybe references so I can discount what this doc told me.
Is it that some people do well on a vegetarian diet, because of their specific genetic make up? Does everyone do well on a paleo diet? Thanks, Laura
Cut out the grains, legumes & dairy. Those are the problems.
The PDF seems to be broken, could you update the link?
DONE!
[...] 100,000 years ago. A lot of people cite The China Study when criticizing the Paleo Diet – here are some essays, reviews, and a debate between the author of the Paleo Diet and the author of the China Study that might make you change [...]
[...] is a link to a debate between Profs Cordain and Campbell. This is a must read. Please note that I am not advocating Robb [...]
Anybody who feels that any diet that is high (>20%) in animal protein is superior to a 100% plant based diet is willfully ingnorant of the current body of literature on diet and it’s correlations with health. The vast majority of literature ever produced on this topic has shown this. Yes there may be occasional studies that show diets that contain animal products are in some narrow criteria superior. However this is the minority. That is the facts. Even though I myself do not follow Campbells suggested diet, I find the science behind his reasoning very sound as it correlated with what the vast majority of literature indicates. I find it amusing to see people try to argue with the stats he chose to use or that he did not consider evolutionary models in his research conclusions. It as if they are grasping for any reason to continue to eat animal based foods. Come on people…I eat animal based foods because they taste good and I like them. I think some deep psychoanalysis may be needed on those that keep wanting to argue against plant based diets.
I actually live in China, in a city, and you should see the crap people chow down on and swill back. There are only three drinks in the stores without the same sugar content as cola. Water, Oolong tea and Japanese style green tea.
Loads of people eat a sweet bread for breakfast, maybe with a bit of sweet pork mince in the middle. They’ll have a can of sugary, milk coffee with that and a cup noodle for lunch. This is not everyone, particularly not low income folks or the very rich (who somehow seem to know better?), but it’s pretty much everyone else. And they’re fat. Even if they’re skinny, if they’re over 30 (more of a toss up in their teens and 20s), they’re all wobbly. Not Michelin man fat, but they’re a tubby bunch. Oh, except for the old folks and the poor folks who don’t eat every meal every day (also incidentally many of the elderly).
Once you head out of the city, you don’t find the same kind of crap for sale. It’s sit-down meals or stuff made where you bought it, meat buns, tea eggs, dried fish, chicken feet or whatever. No vending machines and not so many convenience stores. And not nearly as many middle class folks with spare cash.
I’m leaving the nutrition thinking requirements to Robb and Prof. Cordain, but given what I’ve learned from you guys, I have another set of ideas about China’s disease distribution. I’m much more inclined to tuck into a bit of dried fish testicle or a thousand year old duck egg like the tough 85 year old dude who fixed my bike than the (vegan) sweet bun the fat kid on the bus next to me is mowing while he breaths his huffy little breaths through his stuffy little nose between draws on his 20% real juice and soy milk mix.
Besides, I’d rather have the death of one animal on my conscience (600lb pig which would last 4 months at 80% of my wife and my calories… mmm… chasiu…bacon…) than a completely unknowable devastation of deaths suffered on the blade of a (fossil fuel driven) plow. Even if I died at 60 of whatever vegetarians say I will, I’d prefer that kind of ethical environment to the high and mighty moralism and IBS/mystery-celiacs of my vegetarian youth. Plus, I think mice and shrews are cuter than cows.
really weird. The day following my first post, I saw not one obese person on my way to work. I saw no fat folks at work either. It took me until 6pm on my way home from work to see five sort of tubby fat people… it was all workmen, teens and old folks though… That was uncanny. Felt like I might have misrepresented China there… for most of the day. Probably still am somehow…
[...] anni fa’. Un sacco di persone citano The China Study quando criticano la dieta Paleo – Qui saggi e recensioni ed un dibattito – tra l’autore della Paleo Diet e l’autore del Cina Studi che potrebbe cambiare la [...]